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A reply to Senator Humphries
by Simon Sheikh
In the spirit of a vibrant democracy, I'd like to address some of Senator Humphries' concerns about GetUp. The Senator claims that GetUp's political agenda is hidden and "undisclosed." The campaigns we fight on are plastered all over our homepage for all to see. They aren't drawn from a Greens or ALP agenda, in fact they cut across the political spectrum - being independent is what allows us to criticise without fear or favour, and our campaigns have targeted decision makers regardless of which party is in power. And they are disclosed in a very public manner.
As you'll also read on our website, GetUp does not back any particular party, but aims to build an accountable and progressive Parliament - a Parliament with economic fairness, social justice and environmental sustainability at its core. That is our 'agenda'.
Economic fairness, social justice and environmental sustainability - that's what we believe in.
GetUp is a not-for-profit and receives no money from any political party or the government. We rely solely on funds and in-kind donations from the Australian public. Donations that we receive not to pursue an undisclosed agenda, but to build our nation's progressive future.
In pursuing our vision for Australia, as GetUp members we know that we have to work closely with the Liberal and National parties. In fact, this is perhaps the most crucial thing we can do at this point in time. It is therefore disappointing that Senator Humphries has misunderstood GetUp's purpose so dramatically. We would love to work with him to help produce better outcomes on issues we can hold the Government to account on.
Project Democracy, part of our democracy building arm, offers a service that all Australians can use. One which does not promote any political agenda. It offers parliamentary information, tailored news feeds, and the opportunity to have your say on what your senators are up to. None of this has any intrinsic political agenda attached.
Once again, I want to thank the Senator for his contribution, and I'd love to see him back here interacting with his constituents on Project Democracy.
Senator Humphries - for Project Democracy to fulfill its purpose we need more posts from people like you. Thank you for contributing your thoughts.
Simon Sheikh is National Director of GetUp!
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andrew zakhary on Why Scott Bridges will be watching the Senate. - You guys are deluding yourselves if you think you are neutral. You cannot be...
Paul on A reply to Senator Humphries - Although I think GetUp is generally a way of patting ourselves on the back and...
Phil on A reply to Senator Humphries - I am a longstanding Greens voter and Getup subscriber and I think Gary Humphries...
Kay Fisher on A reply to Senator Humphries - I agree with you here, interesting reply, but lacking in actually addressing the...
Travis on A reply to Senator Humphries
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phildeerhound
Posted by phildeerhound 10/15/2008Senator – you may find this hard to believe but I have senior members of the Liberal Party in my own family. Despite the fact that my own political views are rarely in accord with them we mostly get on quite well. You might even run into me at the odd Liberal Party social function as a guest. You see not all of us at those functions are ourselves Conservative Coalition supporters. Some of us are there for the beer. We just keep off the subject of politics, since we find it a waste of time trying to get through to you all that other people have valid alternative opinions, and we are mostly polite people who do not seek to upset you. So we sometimes "bite our tongues"
I have therefore had the opportunity to observe close hand a phenomena amongst Coalition members, especially Liberals, which being the belief that they have a right to rule and a personal political and economic superiority. I am not sure where it comes from, some would say the private school system played a role, but I sent my own son to one of your private schools and this phenomena did not appear in him. So since it is ridiculous to regard it as a product of nature, I know that it most be a product of nurture.
In part I have observed that it comes from a degree of social isolation. Liberals actually do not mix with what they regard as ordinary people. They join exclusive clubs and tend to mix in circles from which the real world is barred, sometimes in the form of exclusive and expensive sporting and social clubs
To give an obvious example, Sydney has a major Golf Club occupying a vast amount of Eastern Suburbs recreational land. The local people are barred from it – except as guests of members -unless they have spent years going through a selection procedure. And yet the children of members are entered into the waiting lists at birth. Not surprisingly the bulk of the membership are Conservative Coalition supporters. There they hide, during their play and dinner, locked away from the real world
This isolation – in my observation, is fed by the choice of basic information source. I have noted that Liberal Party members are rarely particular fond of the ABC or of SBS attacking them as “Left Wing†or seeking that they be undermined and commercialised
But they do read newspapers that most of us long ago abandoned such as – in Sydney – the Sydney Morning Herald and even The Australian. For intellectual stimulus quite a few seem to turn to truly terrible minority rags like “Quadrantâ€
Senator, we gave up on these sources years ago. We found that they did not reflect the world as we experienced it - and if you too are stuck in such a cultural “Scheinweltâ€, it is small wonder that a genuinely democratic forum such as GetUp is a mystery to you.
Whilst Coalition members live in their parallel universe, the rest of us have to deal with you as if you were people on the other side of an enclosing glass wall. We can see and hear everything you do – but most of it makes no sense, and the wall makes it impossible to get through to you – even to touch you. We did not build those walls – those who nurtured you did, and you reinforced them yourselves. Why do you do that? It is so sad.
Many of us seek our information from international newspapers – sometimes accessed via the internet and from a wide variety of other sources. For us the economic downturn and accompanying political crisis was no surprise. I could have told you about it eighteen months ago, but I doubt if you would have listened. You were all to much engaged in swimming in circles in John Howards Thatcherite/Reaganite/Bushite goldfish bowl
So is it any real wonder that GetUp worries you? – It is giving you all a cold blast or reality and the reawakening must be painful to you
I too am delighted to see you all on GetUp forums but could I give you one word of advice – couched perhaps in the same arrogance that many of us have experienced for our entire lives, sadly even during our own childhood where we come from Right Wing families, at the hands of Liberal and National Party members
Senator – you have far more to learn than you have to teach. There is no growth without pain and I trust we are assisting as ordinary GetUp members in making that growth less painful than it might be.
Try talking to some of your own family that have broken free from your “Scheinwelt†– talk to some of the "other" people at your social functions. That would be a good start to rehabilitation into the real world for all of you who come from that strange parallel universe that has been so instrumental in bringing our world to its current state of insecurity. For the truth is that it was not those you regard as “ordinary people†who brought about climate change, inspired terrorism and war, and sleep walked our society into political and economic collapse
It was your people that did it.
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Cindy Eiritz
Posted by Cindy Eiritz 11/15/2008Beautifu. Well done.
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Warren
Posted by Warren 10/16/2008Nicely done - a civil response to Humphries petulant attack.
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Kel
Posted by Kel 10/17/2008This post is just to demonstrate that people 'out there' are watching. Thanks for the opportunity.
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Barb
Posted by Barb 10/17/2008Well Senator Humphries
You will be pleased to know you have a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal member - myself - of Get Up, using that organisation to get more knowledge of all manner of subjects and to vote where I feel stronly. So any leaning to the Left will not work here.
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Monica
Posted by Monica 10/18/2008I am a Labor supporter and a unionist. Getup is not affiliated with the union movement or the Labor party in anyway. Getup is an organisation that gives Australians a voice, Australians from all different political backgrounds. They give us a voice to vote on things that matter to us. Getup allows us to show all political parties what Australians are thinking. To show you all what really matters to US. We want fairness, equality and an environment that is sustainable as well as of economic benefit of us all. The environment is of great importance and ignoring it will not help Australia or the world. This attitude does not make us Green it makes us Smart. I am glad that a senator has taken the time to have a look at what we are doing, just saddened that what we are trying to achieve is misunderstood. Everyone here is looking for a better Australia.
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Denise Tzumli
Posted by Denise Tzumli 10/19/2008Methinks that this is a a little Freudian slip
"In pursuing our vision for Australia, as GetUp members we know that we have to work closely with the Liberal and National parties."
Although I contribute funds to Get Up I too have been a bit wary of Get Up's agenda, feeling that it is biased to retaining the status quo - the status quo being a 2 party system and biased to the right.
Australian politics is dominatated by an underlying assumption that coalition governments (other than conservative ones) are a BAD THING.
Get Up was initiated because the domination of the Senate by the conservative coalition turned what should have been a house of review into a rubber stamp, and I suspect even without Get Up the domination of the Senate by any one party would have ceased.
I think it is time that the domination of the lower house by one party also cease. The very adversarial nature of debate in Parliament is detrimental to the proper exploration of the issues. What we have is system of posturing, name calling and blaming, and things which should move off the current agenda are dragged back each change of government and reversed, example being the Liberal move toward privatising Medibank a second time.
With some minor parties and independents in the lower house there is a possibility that genuine representation of citizens will occur.
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George
Posted by George 10/19/2008How would you like the number of electors joining the Rodent ravaged Liberal party as are joining Get Up daily Humphries?
To me it a sign of Australian voters being fed up to the back teeth of being fed out and out blatant lies by politicians of all persuasions, putting their own self interest before fair and just representation of their constituents, and they have an unbiased forum, to air their point of view that they have not had in the past!
It is simple Humphries, do the right thing by the people, or, the people are going to vote you out.
Besides Humphries, in my opinion you are being hypocritical! Never heard you complain about the Right wing "Australian" and Murdoch newspapers blatant bias toward the Rodents big End of town, working family hating Government when you despicable mob were lying around in your hammocks, pushing the OK button ocassionally whilst in
government!
Get Up is all about retaining our Democratic rights that were challenged and attacked by your Liberal/National government led by Howard.
Thats why Get Up numbers will continue to grow whilst political party numbers
continue to drop.
It's early days for Get Up!Get Up will grow into a massive political force in Australia and those who ignore it will do so at their political peril.
Stop your Dribbling Humphries and get on with representing your State like you were elected to do!
Get Up is an unstoppable fact of life!
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A. Worsnop
Posted by A. Worsnop 10/27/2008I would have preferred it, Simon, if you'd addressed some of the points he was making though.
A better reply would have been one involving examples of where GetUp has been critical of Left wing politics or parties (if you think you are right it shouldn't be too hard to find at least one example). Instead, we get a marketing-style spiel that makes it sound like you're only playing moderate as a form of sucking up. hmm. uninspiring..
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Travis
Posted by Travis 11/21/2008I agree with you here, interesting reply, but lacking in actually addressing the issue.
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russell_c
Posted by russell_c 11/24/2008Well said phildeerhound (10/15/2008)
(p.s. GetUp -- can you please use Australian dd/mm/yy in dates and not the US version. Thanks)
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Kay Fisher
Posted by Kay Fisher 11/28/2008I am a longstanding Greens voter and Getup subscriber and I think Gary Humphries has a point and, for me, Simon's answer does little to rebut that point. I accept the intentions of Getup may be to be impartial but i do think that they are kidding themselves if they really think that Getup is representative of Australian opinion and concerns. I also think it may be unrealistic to think that Getup could be, at least in the near future.
You don't have to do research on political opinion/attitudes (as I have) to realise that the sorts of issues, concerns, language and even the medium of Getup is not an mipartial and even representation of Australian views. I mean we had Howard for over 10 years and you only have to take note of the way internet access and use is distributed to know that there is a large demographic bias skewed towards educated, young, left-leaning voters.
Moreover, as a non-major party voter I would say, if its true, that Humphries has a damn good point about the Senate Committee chairing issue. To me, more than anything, it would be a dead giveaway that the proponents on the issue are less concerned with shoring up democratic pluralist ethics in our (majoritarian) system than ensuring the virtuous (ie the people we like) have adequate power.
Personally, I think Getup should pay more attention to the Democratic Audit reports (now based at a QLD Uni i think) to get less party-interest-biased campaigns that aim to promote accountability and pluralism. Given the bias in the subscriber list I don't think you will get this balanced impartiality from participants' inspirations. Mind you, pluralism itself is a politically contested issue - think of all those Australians who complain (when they have THEIR man in power) that we should 'let governments govern'.... meaning 'butt out' Senate. We're not all the same sort of democrats.
But I think, in the current context, it is actually unrealistic to think Getup can get a fair or even representation particularly of conservative views. There are many systemic reasons for this but the most obvious being the sorts of people who have access to, want to and have the time to use the internet to do this sort of thing. I think for some conservatives, the idea of direct democracy and campaigning is too akin to protest, which they object to in principle as an unseemly activity of citizens. The practice of protest and direct democracy has tended to be the preserve of the left (and thats a problem for conservatives to sort out as internet participation takes off). Thats why the pluralists among us should be pleased to see some new conservatives on the scene, such as One Nation, increasingly taking an active role. I think it is better to have more regulated political debates than to have anger and frustration taken out in uglier aggressive ways.
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Phil
Posted by Phil 12/1/2008Although I think GetUp is generally a way of patting ourselves on the back and pretending we're to thank for things the government already said it was going to do, the medium itself, and the idea, is definately going to take off more and more.
Its obvious, if everyone has access to good information, we can all make better decisions, and therefore make better choices. HOWEVER any bias in the information must be taken with a grain of salt and most people by nature don't tend to do this.
The solution?
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Paul
Posted by Paul 12/5/2008You guys are deluding yourselves if you think you are neutral. You cannot be neutral. Your ideology is "economic fairness, social justice and environmental sustainability." Which, and pardon my assumption, is far more akin with a left leaning, progressive ideology. I mean the very fact that you have to emphasise the fact that you "have to work" with the Liberal/National parties, might serve to indicate that there is an ideological fissure between this organisation and the that of the conservative parties.
I'm all for your position of a progressive Australia, but progressive implies the opposite of conservative. So don't kid yourselves into thinking you are netural or that you will be whole impartial. You can't have your cake and eat it to, either claim you are for accountable government and drop the ideological position that you hold (accountability transcends ideology) or call yourselves what you are: an ideologically progressive social movement that seeks to implement its ideology through lobbying.
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James
Posted by James 12/9/2008Paul, Simon didn't say GetUp is neutral he said it is independent. GetUp say on their website they are progressive (http://www.getup.org.au/about/faq/) but they also say they are independent of any political party.
Mr Humphries wants to believe GetUp is a Labor front because he lives in a black and white world where anyone who doesn't love John Howard is a Labor front, including presumably the Greens.
In reality GetUp take no money or orders from Labor and happily disagree with them and campaign against them if their policy is not progressive, for example their hare-brained net censorship plans.
Note the difference though between GetUp and Project Democracy. Simon points out that Project Democracy _is_ designed to be politically neutral and focus on debate between members and bloggers rather than pushing GetUp's position.
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Leigh
Posted by Leigh 12/6/2008GetUp is a political action group, not a political party.
Any intelligent human being will know that each and every individual will have a bias, created by the social and or economic environment in which they have evolved.
Without which we would not have independent thought, however anyone who believes independent thought unsuitable for the general population of Australia, please note there is a paddock out there somewhere where you can graze with all the other sheep.
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